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Any advice for a newbie
on Crowley's deck?
I have experience with
the waite universe,
hoping to go deeper with
the archetypes.....
on Crowley's deck?
I have experience with
the waite universe,
hoping to go deeper with
the archetypes.....
posted by:
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Portland
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 7:35 AMhi Aaron! if you seek in-depth understanding of the symbolism in the Crowley-Harris deck, get hold of Crowley's book The Book of Thoth. -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 2:23 AMyup with ned, a must have.Im on my second copy even after 20 years of study -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 9:06 PMi wonder if it is available online anywhere?
I'm gonna check.
there is a real power in the geometries of the cards.... -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:44 PMDuQuette's book, "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Book of Thoth Tarot" is a good adjunct to the BoT -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 11:44 PMI second that motion.... DuQuettes book is an all around amazing easing into
all things thelemic and Thoth.
HIghly recommended.
RR. -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 10:10 AMAbsolutely buy DuQuette! Another deck that uses the same correspondences is the Motherpeace Deck. I use the two books as a yin & yang when I suspect that Crowley was focusing too much on being Mr Crowley. Motherpeace is self-consciously feminist so they're really well suited to each other.
Also be aware that some decks have more than one version of a couple cards but the books will only show the ones he approved. The magician is one.... I can't remember what the other one is. I find that when I get the alternate version in a reading it's to get my attention.
www.SilverSunbeam.etsy.com -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 12:47 PMBecause there are 8- spaces on a sheet to print 78 cards, those two cards are used for a variety of things. For example, LoScarabeo decks use them for advertising, other decks use them as extra meditation cards, &c.
One version of the Thoth deck includes two versions of the Magus that Crowley did not approve for inclusion in the deck. The "Apollonian" Magus is what he approved, but if you have this version of the deck, you may wish to either remove those cards or include them for extra "magical" input on readings -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 5:12 PMI'm sure a book would help guide me through....
the images themselves
don't resonate as powerfully as
GASP!
waite's archetypes,
maybe I am just so used to the ae w style
but crowley's abstract images are harder to
internalize, identify with,
i know there is heaps of symbolism locked within them,
i had similar troubles with the dave mckean vertigo deck.
while the major arcana is for the most part
resonating clearly and deeply,
the minor pip cards leave somewhat lonely.....
i keep going back to my
russian st. petersburg deck for clarification. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: a new Thoth Deck
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:20 AMThat's perfectly OK, Aaron. If you get the DuQuette book you'll see that the painter, Lady Harris, was often made ill trying to paint the cards. Look up the paintings of the Italian Futurists to get a visual perspective on what she was doing. As illustration, they are rich in cutting-edge mathematical and visual theory of the time. Remember that these were painted in a period of great upheaval in Europe and, to my eye, they reflect this well of fear and uncertainty.
Not everyone is attracted to the Thoth. It's said that it's a deck for serious questioning only and I'm not one to disbelieve that experience. It takes a lot of concentration and commitment to get into those images and your guide / guardian angels may want you to just become familiar with the deck for now. One day you may feel like it's time to ask the deck a question and all of a sudden it starts to make sense.
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:24 AMWaite and THOTH are cool, perhaps the coolest, as tested over years. Both have their advantages. The TAHUTI deck will connect you to I Ching and astronomy, thus valuable. lulu.com/astrology -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, May 17, 2008 - 12:22 PMthe words tahuti, deck and tarot appear no where on the page you have linked.
thanks -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 4:21 PMapril,
this is a wise perspective.
and it is the one I have also chosen,
to set the thoth aside for now until
later in my life when i feel drawn to it again.
interesting that lady harris was made ill while
painting the cards, i read somewhere that
she and crowley had an odd relationship,
but i suppose that is normal in regards to all things crowley. -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 12:15 PMshe worked on the cards for years....
delving into every aspect of union and duality....
that can occasionally make anyone sick...
the emphasis on the idea that the cards made her sick sometimes
is dramatic over emphasis.
She loved everything about those cards as do those of
us who have taken them on and are OK with facing the
shadow and the light.
cheers -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 2:42 PMI was thinking more that the paintings and the unbelievable level of meaning she was trying to cram into them. Not into the whole "the cards have secret power" stuff..... I guess the "chapters" in this "book" are more thorough than most other decks.
Aaron- I would still recommend the two books as basic reference material. I'm currently reading Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism which speaks a tarot tradition outside of the pagan / witchcraft sphere. It's scholarly but also very readable. The author is an anonymous monk. If you have folks who are challenging your use of Tarot (devil's cards etc) then it's a pleasant rebuttal... or you could just throw it at them.... it's kinda thick! -
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 6:53 PMthe only defense I have is that
my grandmother read tarot and used a deck passed down to her
from her grandmother from Russia....
according to what I have learned
the older decks more closely resemble waite
but don't get me wrong i am fascinated by the
aura around crowley-harris, the images
shock and intrigue, seduce and enchant,
hypnotise, and confuse.........
april the book you mention sounds very interesting,
tarot will be a lifelong study for many of us.......
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, December 12, 2009 - 8:50 AM>>>he emphasis on the idea that the cards made her sick sometimes
is dramatic over emphasis. <<<
The Crowley--Harris feud is something of a joke perpetrated by Crowley and Harris. She complained bitterly that he made her redo a number of the cards many times, making her ill with constant overwork. A closer look at their records shows that at least as often, Lady Frieda Harris herself insisted on redoing the designs again and again. To get an idea of their working relationship, consider the statement she made to close her introduction to the book, "The accompanying booklet was dashed off by Aleister Crowley, without help from parents. Its perusal may be omitted with advantage." Next bear in mind that the "accompanying booklet" is a book of over 280 pp., and that Crowley must have read and approved her "Bibliographical Note" before it went to press.
Those two certainly enjoyed banter, all in good fun.
With love under will,
Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, December 12, 2009 - 7:00 AMThe Thoth deck is my personal fave it is beautifully made and i took to it right away more then any other decks.
Another good book that goes deep into the cards is The Tarot Handbook by Angeles Arrien i highly recommend it!!
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Re: a new Thoth Deck
Sat, December 12, 2009 - 9:05 AM>>>hoping to go deeper with
the archetypes..... <<<
The Thoth deck will take you deeper than any other. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of decks available; most are of interest because of their art. Thoth, however, is an intense condensation of the most profound ideas of QBL, alchemy, astrology, color symbolism, Taoist thought, I Ching, geomancy, tantra and who knows how many other systems. It has been said that a great Tarot deck presents the entire learning of a great magician, in pictorial symbolism. That is especially true of the Thoth. The bad news is that it may take up all of your lifetime trying to learn everything shown in the deck. The good news is that it may take up all of your lifetime trying to learn everything shown in the deck. All it takes is a reasonable familiarity with Tarot to do readings right away. But over time, you are likely to start looking at things in Thoth that aren't clear, and this will lead you as deep as you care to go with the archetypes, perhaps deeper than you ever thought you could go. And you will likely learn more and more about Crowley and his thought as you study the deck. In fact, I don't believe any really profound understanding can be achieved without learning and appreciating Crowley's philosophy-disguised--as--religion of Thelema.
At 66 years old, I am aware that I am constantly discovering never before seen connections in Thoth and Thelema that seem perfectly obvious once seen, but often take years even to notice for the first time. To sum up: Thoth is a fascinating adventure that will fill your life with enchantment. Have fun.
With love under will,
Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville
